SH300i transmission problem

[boiski]

Hello, I'm from Bulgaria. I own SH150i (2005) and now I'm going to buy a 2nd hand SH300i (2007). Yesterday I went to the seller to see the scooter. There is some problem with the transmission. When the engine is off and scooter is on center stand the rear tire doesn't rotate smoothly - there is some friction and noise, something like brake or clutch friction. When start the engine the tire starts running and it's not easy to stop it if you put foot on it. When both tires are on the ground and turn on the engine, the scooter goes slightly, like car with regular automatic transmission. Otherwise it runs and accelerates pretty well, but there is one more thing. When I'm riding with 50-60km/h and put the trottle completely down the scooter begin stopping faster than expected like there is some friction somewhere. Whan do you think, what can be the problem? Clutch, torque driver, belt, rollers, sliders? I suspect the clutch is constantly coupled. But why?

Probably will see the exact reason when the scooter is with me and remove the transmission cover. I have to mention that I have garage and tools and prefer to repair my vehicles by myself. So I'm looking for technical/mechanical advice.

[TommyXP]

Hello Boiski. I am wondering how many miles are on the bike?
Thinking that when you get it disassembled you will find a lot of roller and drive-face pulley wear.....
Just guessing......Good luck and keep us posted.

[boiski]

Europe's SH models are originally manufactured in Italy, so 2nd hand bikes are usually imported from there. This one we're talking about is also imported from there. In Italy the dealers of 2nd hand bikes like to reduce the mileage of odometer manually. So here in central end east Europe is really hard to find the real mileage not only for bikes, but for cars also. It's kind of stupid cheat. In that line of thought the odometer of this bike shows 13k km which is impossible. I think the real mileage is over 50k km (or over 30k miles). It's in good cosmetic shape, but the rear brake disk is replaced and the front is in very bad condition, extremely thin.

I'm sure I will find worn parts, but the price of bike is good also - 1200 Euro. I think there is a real chance to fix it for about 300 Euro.

I will attach photos when it arrive.

[robber57]

Has to be the clutch/driven vario/torquedriver assembly, in specific the clutch, apperently it does not come completly free, there may be worn/warped clutch pads, or overheated and pieces came loose and are now rubbing inside the bell, who knows...
This also causes the strange behavior when you release the throttle, i stead of coasting along it will decellerate rather quickly.

You can find oon ebay , intermittent, complete driven vario assemblys voor about 100 euro, they are new and mostly 2007 model, probably old stock, its a bargain as it is clutch, bell,torquedriver and varios complete, i am guessing retail around 600 euro(?)
If you are going to buy new from dealer you may want to order a 2008 model vario as this has a modified clutch which makes the bike accelerate faster and do corners better with the clutch falling on/off on 20-30 kmh corners.
Fitting on a 2007 bike is 1:1

Guessing the mileage on a sh300 is diificult as it mostly depends on you driving style, to give you one example: my friends sh300 has done 60.000 km's and still has the original discs front and rear, when mine was at 12.000 km's both front an rear disc completly worn beyond specs and had to be replaced....
I wear a set pads in 6.000 km's and both discs last 2 sets of pads....
My rear tire does no more then 4-5000 km,s and front 8.000 km at most.
My fuel consumption lies between 1:14 all the way up to 1:35 but mostly around 1:20 if i am lucky and manage to stay in civilised-but-fast-mode.
If i go out for a afternoon in psycho-mode it becomes worse and i tink if you give me a trackday on Assen i can shred all consumables in one afternoon,it really depends on what you do with it.

Early 2007 models may also have the "stalling syndrome" where the bike stalls(engine stops) when approaching with a coasting engine a traffic light at decelleration to zero when the light goes sudenly green and you give full throttle, the engine sometimes can stall, check for this problem as it ca only be fixed with a new ECU(expensive)

[boiski]

The bike is already in my garage.

I haven't noticed the 'stalling syndrome' you're describing, but will see in future...

Photos:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

As you can see the clutch is Malossi in very bad worn condtion with one broken yellow spring. The main/central spring is red color I think (there is almost no paint left). Clutch and bell are for the trash bin.

The variator is in acceptable condition - sliders and rollers OK. The rollers are 18gr. Are they stock/genuine? Otherwise both faces of variator and torque driver have grooves. There is 'HM' mark. What do you think, is it stock or aftermarket?

The belt is 25.1-25.2mm in good visual condition. Couldn't see the brand yesterday but will check again. What is the service limit?

The air filter seems to be new (green color).

The dipstick (oil level gauge) has broken top, so I have to order one. It's 10 euro in the local Honda dealer.

Have to check the condition of spark plug, but probably will buy bran new NGK:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321445360381? ... EBIDX%3AIT

The rear brake disc has been replaced soon, but the front is worn. New genuine is about 80 euro, but I found replacement on eBay for about 40 euro:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321445360381? ... EBIDX%3AIT

The rear tire is worn. I think to change both tires with Michelin City Grip - 110-115 euro for pair.

The brake light doesn't activate when push the levers. I have to check the wires and proper operation of both switches.

I'm looking this clutch set:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262477766057? ... EBIDX%3AIT
Couldn't find cheaper.

Regarding the variator. I'm considering buying a new one or used but in better condition. Currently haven't found suitable offer on eBay. There are few used in Italy:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... 5573.m1684

Yesterday bought genuine engine oil (10W30 Jaso MB) and oil filter. I have enough brake fluid DOT4 and coolant in my garage for change. So today I will change these fluids and thinking of the other needed parts...

[TommyXP]

Excellent report and photo's. Thanks for taking the time and effort.
FWIW the service limit on the SH150 belt is 21.5mm and looks nothing like your belt, with the upper surface being flat and un-grooved.
Consider "Iridium" for NGK spark-plug replacement. Seem to last forever.
Thumbs-up on the Michelin City-Grips.
You left me wishing I could find such a 300 'War-Horse' to work on..........

[boiski]

btw I found the following service manual for SH300 in a greek forum:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kBF1 ... sp=sharing

It says 25.5mm width as service limit for belt, but friend of mine with the same scooter told me that this limit is not accurate, because he bought brand new Bando belt from Italy with standart width around 25.1-25.2mm. So where is the truth?

I missed to mention that I'm planning to change the oil in final drive also. I'm wondering what oil to use? The manual says engine oil 10w30 Jaso MA. But I have about 300ml. manual transmission oil CASTROL SYNTRAX UNIVERSAL PLUS 75W-90 left from one of my ex cars. Will be OK for final drive? I'm currently riding my SH150i with Tutela ZC Synth 75W80 (Italian oil) car manual transmission oil and there is no problem.

edit:

Consider "Iridium" for NGK spark-plug replacement. Seem to last forever.

I use iridium spark-plug on my SH150i, but can't find irudium replacement for 300's standart NGK LMAR8A-9?

[TommyXP]

I'd advise against using any 'synthetic' in the final drive.
I just use a standard 75-90w gear lube.
Somewhere in the old posts, Robert57 wrote a convincing post on why NOT to use synthetics where meshing gears are involved.......

[TommyXP]

Here is one post......not the one I am looking for where he explains about how synthetic molecules are bent and broken by meshing gears.....
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=31&p=5507&hilit=sy ... rive#p5507

[boiski]

OK, no low-saps (energy conserving) oils in the engine, but why not synthetic based tranny oil in the final drive? Isn't it "just a plain gearbox,all bearings are ball bearing and there are no bearing-bushes nor yellow metals in it"?

Today I changed the coolant with IGAT AN12+ (50:50 antifreeze:distilled water) and engine oil + oil filter (Honda 10w30 Jaso MB + Honda filter)...and ordered a new complete clutch set with torque driver from eBay (110 GBP). I also ordered new spark-plug NGK. The guy who sells the clutch sets told me that within 1-2 weeks will have complete new genuine variator sets for sale. But let's see what will be the price.

Now I'm ready for new tires, brake fluid change and revision of brake calipers. Old spark-plug revision also. Than have to solve the problem with brake light which doesn't work. I checked the bulb but it's ok. For any reason there is no voltage to this bulb.

btw Look at that photo:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/tIL7w ... w1325-h523

Do you see the traces of belt on the down surface of variator box? I wonder what is the reason the belt to touch that area.